357 Sig

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nachogrande
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Re: 357 Sig

Post by nachogrande » Sat May 15, 2010 9:00 pm

the 357 sig was designed to basicly duplicate the performance of a 357mag using 125gr bullets in a 4" barrel, in a semi auto format, and basicly it does that. but with increased pistol wear noise and muzzle flash.the 357sig is a 40 s&w brass necked down to take.355" ( 9mm ) bullets and can be loaded with 115-150gr bullets. the best performance coming from 125gr. storebought ammo will probly not be cheap or easy to find. alot of people swear by them. imo these type of guns are for close range self defense 10 yds or less and bullet placement and premium bullet selection are alot more important than plus or minus 100-200 fps. plus if THE SHTF I want to have popular calibers, preferably nato rounds, that will be more likely to be available. in the woods I'm always packing a 45 acp, or 357 snubbie ( I don't plan on any shots over 20 yds) or for concealed carry a pocket 9mm or 40 s&w compact. this is assuming I actualy owned any guns, which of course I do not.
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Re: 357 Sig

Post by GoodOyster » Sat May 15, 2010 10:32 pm

If it's a good price, I'd go for it. Some of the Glocks you can swap barrels and go from .357 Sig to .40 S&W or even .45ACP, but even if the one you're looking at ain't one of those, having the power of a .357 with a full clip (from 10-15 rounds) instead of just 6 rounds can't be all bad!
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Re: 357 Sig

Post by GoodOyster » Sat May 15, 2010 10:52 pm

Good reading on the 357Sig: http://www.glockmeister.com/357sig.shtml

Some quotes from it:
2. For those interested in a semiauto that has external ballistics comparable to a 357 Magnum revolver, but is more compact, kicks & flashes less, reloads faster, packs more rounds, and has faster follow up shot capability, the 357 SIG fits the bill. Although the SAAMI specs from a 357 Magnum test barrel is 1450 fps, a typical 4" 357 Magnum often generates about 1350 fps or so, which happens to be the same velocity as the 357 SIG caliber from a 3.86" barrel. A 4.5" - 5" barreled 357 SIG can push bullets over 1500 fps.
6. You get more feeding reliability *insurance* using a bottlenecked cartridge. As long as the magazine is feeding the 357 SIG cartridge correctly, then ramming a 9mm bullet into a 10mm chamber opening is a definite advantage.
Glock engineers actually took advantage of this bottlenecked cartridge when they engineered their .357 Glocks (M31, M32, & M33). As a result, the Glock .357 barrels have a fairly tight chamber and a well supported chamber in the 6 o'clock position.

7. You get another advantage with the bottlenecked 357 SIG cartridge. The velocity spreads can often be less than 20 fps, which is quite excellent.
Accurate Arms Company had this to say about the 357 SIG caliber: "This is without a doubt the most ballistically consistent handgun cartridge we have ever worked with. The standard deviation for every single load developed was less than 10 fps. The average SD was 5 fps. This is impressive for any cartridge but especially so for a handgun. The small bottleneck and high working pressure of the round must both contribute to this amazing consistency..."
10. The 357 SIG has less torque than the .40 because of using a smaller 9mm bullet. This means less twisting in the hands and a more straight up and down muzzle action, which can help provide better gun handling control. The faster slide action of the 357 SIG can also provide faster follow-up shooting.
11. Another advantage if you carry all day, is that five loaded 357 SIG magazines weigh less than five loaded magazines in .40 S&W and especially .45 ACP.
19. A major advantage of the 357 SIG over the .40 S&W is that a lot of people have proven that the 357 SIG is inherently accurate, while the .40 S&W is good, but not excellent in this arena. --- See Attachment 6.
20. Another 357 SIG advantage is that it's like having a little rifle instead of a pistol. The 357 SIG is accurate out to 100 yards. At 100 yards, using a 3.86" barrel, a 125 grain bullet is still traveling at a nominal velocity of 1080 fps, with an energy of 325 ft/lbs. And it has a trajectory of 0.2" at 25 yards, 0.7" at 50 yards, 1.6" at 75 yards, and 3.1" at 100 yards. Typical defense & sport scenarios don't usually occur at long distance. But it's still nice to know that the 357 SIG has this capability.
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Re: 357 Sig

Post by nachogrande » Sun May 16, 2010 7:32 am

I'd go with whatever feels best in your hand and you are able to shoot the best quickly and accurately, another consideration is are you gonna carry it concealed 24/7 or just a few hours at a time exposed. what I like about glocks is they are #1 dependable,#2 no external hammer or safety to mess with in a crisis time, more accurate than you would think for a fairly heavy trigger, dissasemble w/o tools, magazines are interchangeable within the same caliber so if you like to carry a smaller back up in the same caliber you don't have to carry diff mags, and are reasonably priced for what you get. even though they are plastic ( combat tupperware ) they are light and easy to carry and practicaley indestructable, personaly I prefer sig sauer, but these are the only 2 brands I would consider buying used.
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Re: 357 Sig

Post by nachogrande » Sun May 16, 2010 8:11 am

a well placed shot at close range with a premium bullet, be it from 9mm,357,40, 357sig,45acp should all have pretty much the same effect DOA. my preference for 45 acp is that with a 230 gr bullet at close range should knock a person to the ground even if wearing a vest and at the very least knock the wind out of them if not break ribs and cause internal injury allowing more follow up shots if needed. also a 357sig is not equal to the 357 revolver when it comes to using heavier bullets ex a hot 180 gr load. the ruger sp101 hammerless snub nose ( 5 shot ) is a bit heavy for it's size but feels great in the hand and points well carry's great concealed in pocket or inside waistband, if hunting can be loaded with 1-2 snake shot and 3-4 180gr hot loads, and in a pinch would work real well to bludgeon someone with. pick whats best for your skill and needs and let us know what you choose, there are alot of good guns out there and everyone you ask will probly try to tell you to get something different.
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Re: 357 Sig

Post by nachogrande » Sun May 16, 2010 1:12 pm

they probly ordered a bunch of them and they didn't sell, see if they re-order them if and when they do sell out. as for ballistics thats just paper and statistics. a goodshot from a 22 will kill where a bad shot from a 44mag won't. I'll say it once more and drop the subject. just get whatever you shoot best and feels right to you. I keep 9mm as my bottom line and anything from there up will reliably get the job done at close range if you do your part.
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Re: 357 Sig

Post by GoodOyster » Sun May 16, 2010 8:51 pm

Lots of video on youtube of guys and gals shooting Glocks in 357sig. Recoil doesn't seem too bad.
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Re: 357 Sig

Post by kc45 » Tue Oct 11, 2011 8:18 pm

One problems with 357 Sig is that they are not designed to work with heavier bullets (heavier than 125gr).
They have short surface area for the bullet to make contact due to short neck and with longer (heavier) bullets you are seating the bullet below the neck. I loaded and played with 9X23mm cartridge for couple years and IMHO it is much better cartridge offering similar balistics with lighter bullets but able to handle heavier bullets safely. A properly modified 1911A1 pistols with ramped/supported barrel will let you get 1,350 fps with 147gr bullet safely.

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Re: 357 Sig

Post by M12Gunboy » Wed Oct 12, 2011 3:03 pm

besides costing three times what ..40 cal and 9MM ammo costs...

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Re: 357 Sig

Post by nachogrande » Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:51 pm

+ comparing revolvers to semi autos is a kind of an apples to oranges proposition. reliability has gotta go to the revolver. given = bbl length and bullet wt their velocities are practically the same. a faster cyclic rate, gimme a break, like a few thousandths of a sec is gonna matter. its all about who's pulling the trigger. ask Jerry Michelic about revolver speed. semis by nature are for close quarter combat until a rifle can be reached. in LONG RANGE 100-300 meter metallic silhouette pistol competitions single shots rule followed by revolvers and very few semis. is the 357 sig a good self defense round?, sure, in the right hands as would any of the aforementioned calibers be also.
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Re: 357 Sig

Post by kc45 » Wed Oct 12, 2011 11:01 pm

nacho grande wrote:
reliability has gotta go to the revolver
I used to think so too until I attended a shooting class where we had to fire 900 rounds from a revolver in three days. Most of us in class fired 900 rounds of standard pressure 38 Special loads (158gr @ 850 fps) out of medium (mostly K and few L) frame S&W revolvers. Out of 12 of us in class plus 2 instructors, 3 people had to finish the class with different revolver than what they started with due to serious mechnical failures. In addition several people had minor mechnical failures which were repaired within just few minutes. My S&W model 10 revolver had the extractor rod unscrew during a firing sequence and could not be unloaded. It only took 2 minutes to realize what happened and fix it but the revolver was completely out of service during those two minutes.

This in comparison to my Colt 1911A1 which went 1,500 rounds in 5 days with not one problem or my Glock 19 which went 1,200 rounds in 3 days without cleaning and never had a failure of any kind.

There is a reason why no major military organization in the world uses revolvers anymore... revolver mechnisms are fragile and requires skilled and trained person to perform anything more than basic maintnance.

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Re: 357 Sig

Post by nachogrande » Thu Oct 13, 2011 6:19 am

what if you get a bad primer in a bullet? no biggie with a revolver.and in self defense siuations, face to face to 25' or so max youre not gonna be firing 900 rounds it should all be over in the first few. millitary has a whole other set of issues to deal with and yes a semi is better suited for them. an old roomate of mine a NYPD sgt shot a guy dead center 1st shot with his snubbie and 3 rookies all emptied their 9mm hi caps, missed every shot and 1 even broke a 2nd story window. the sgt was more scared of friendly fire. an ejector rod will not stop a revolver from shooting and they don't get ftf/fte (stovepipes). theres a reason a lot of seasoned pros carry a hi cap as a primary and a snubbie as a backup. any mechanical device can fail, usualy at the worst times. thats why there are a lot of one is none subscribers.
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Re: 357 Sig

Post by Iluv2hunt » Thu Oct 13, 2011 6:38 am

In a concealed carry/self defense situation....I would take a revolver over a 1911 any day of the week and twice on Sundays..

A 1911 is a very cool, sleek sexy gun. Sorta like the Ferrari of guns, but not an every day get around town car...

I am convinced a 1911 will get you killed in a panic situation. Just read the story on AR15 site of the guys that got robbed at gun point and one of them was carrying a 1911. Kinda hard to operate the beaver tail safety and thumb safety when both your hands are shot off from the bad guy. Luckily the bad guy was a terrible shot

For me, I will keep my semi auto 40 with no safeties of any sort. Just un holster it and pull the trigger
I don't hunt turkeys because I want to, I hunt them because I have to. ~Colonel Tom Kelly

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Re: 357 Sig

Post by nachogrande » Thu Oct 13, 2011 7:10 am

just draw, point, squeeze trigger for me too. however I gotta say imo the 1911, GOD bless John Moses Browning the best designer that ever was or will be, may just be the BEST hangun ever invented. props to the Germans also the mauser broom handle pistol and bolt rifle and luger with the toggle action are genius too. when it comes to precision manufacturing they were and still are #1 imo, but that precision and quality is expensive and they just can't compete with waly world. I'd give my left one for a top of the line fine Ziess/leica 6-18x50 30mm rifle scope. when I had some $ I got a pair of leica mini's and Zeiss 10x40 rubber armored binocs and have never regretted it.
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