Talk about an exciting hunt!

[dropt9]

thats how it should go down if u r going to hunt the king of the jungle!good stuff

[bodysnatcher]

He got up all cool like but you know he had a load in his pants. I would.

[Cr0ck1]

they said "the lion was in some REALLY THICK STUFF" Comon man... that not thick.. 5 guys standing in one spot.. please.. thick..

when its thick in flroida you cant see your buddy 3 feet from you.

[Skunk Ape]

Thick where I hunt is when you can't see your feet or your breath when it's cold.

[flhuntfish]

when its thick in flroida you cant see your buddy 3 feet from you.

+1

[Iluv2hunt]

I used to do Wade Boggs pest control. When he killed his lion, it was a similar scenario. He said that is the most scared he's ever been

[flags]

For what it's worth, the PH in that clip is Johan Calitz. He's one of the very best over there. Mostly he hunts Botswana and Zimbabwe. He does a little in South Africa for plains game and rhino, but not much. He is considered one of the very best on dangerous game and is really well known for producing some of the best elephant being taken. He's the real deal.

But, you have to be carful with clips of this nature. A lot of them showing lion are filmed in South Africa and all of them are frauds. There are no truly wild free ranging lions being taken in South Africa. The lion there were nearly shot out during the farming and ranching years. The only viable wild population left is in Kruger National Park and they don't hunt them in the park. Once in awhile, one leaves the park and can be taken on license, or crosses the borders of Zimbabwe or Mozanbique, but it doesn't happen often. And you have to be in the country ready to hunt when it does. So, it's kind like being in the right place at the right time. Not really something you can plan on.

Almost all the lion being shot in South Africa are frauds. What they do is buy a cat from a breeder, cut off food and water for a few days and then just before the "hunter" gets there, they turn it loose in an area with a known water source. Because the cat is hungry and thirsty, it will head to water and then lay up in the shade. So, they begin casting around for tracks, go after it and execute it. If it is done right, the "hunter" never even knows he/she has shot what is basically a domestic animal. This type of thing is kown as "canned" hunting and they are trying to utlaw it, but it brings in a lot of $$$.

If you see a picture of someone standing over a really big lion, with a really full mane and they tell you it is from South Africa, then it is from a canned hunt. Lions that come from areas with a lot of heavy brush simply do not grow big manes because they break the hairs off going through the brush. And, most hunting in South Africa is in pretty brushy areas. Only in large expanses of grasslands do lions get the really big manes, and the only places you're going to hunt the grasslands are in Tanzania, Botswansa, Northern Zimbabwe and Ethiopia. Kenya has a lot of this type of terrain,but there has been no legal hunting there since 1977.

Looking at the brush and terrain in the clip, I'm guessing this was shot in either northern Zimbabwe in an area known as the Matetsi or in the southern parts of the Okavango Delta in Botswana. Lion has been an on and off again situation in Botswana for the last couple years, so the odds are it is Zimbabwe.

Cheers

[Skunk Ape]

I never understood the need to hunt hi-fence or canned hunts.I understand like you said sometimes the hunter never knows the difference,but some of these t.v. shows I've seen lately you can plainly see the tags in the ears of ther deer or elk. I guess some men have no other way of showing off their machoness unless they can kill an animal with an overpriced,overpowered rifle,film it to show thier machoness,then put it's head on the wall to prove their machoness.There was a fellow on here awhile back showing off all his canned hog hunt kills,then I seen him showing off a bunch of exotics on another forum,all hi-fence kills,all macho,all day long.

[Cr0ck1]

I never understood the need to hunt hi-fence or canned hunts.I understand like you said sometimes the hunter never knows the difference,but some of these t.v. shows I've seen lately you can plainly see the tags in the ears of ther deer or elk. I guess some men have no other way of showing off their machoness unless they can kill an animal with an overpriced,overpowered rifle,film it to show thier machoness,then put it's head on the wall to prove their machoness.There was a fellow on here awhile back showing off all his canned hog hunt kills,then I seen him showing off a bunch of exotics on another forum,all hi-fence kills,all macho,all day long.

its for lazy people.. who just want to pay, kill, and put a good mount over their fireplace to look like they are something to talk about.

[nachogrande]

canned or not that lion was a hairs width away from F'ng that guy up, looks like he nailed him right in the head with a good hip shot. they didn't show how they managed to wound him though.

[flags]

Nacho,

This one wasn't a canned hunt. Johan Calitz wouldn't risk his reputation doing something like that. But, the point I was trying to make is that there are a lot of lion videos on youtube that are canned hunts. There is one in particular that shows a big heavily maned male just standing there watching the "hunters" approach. They aren't even trying to be sneaky, just about 7 guys walking striaght towards a big male lion. When the "hunter" makes the shot, he blows it and the cat comes right at them and steamrolls a guy.

Anyone that has been around wild lions will tell you that you don't just march right towards a big male. All cats are sneaky and it takes some doing to get in position for a shot on a wild one.

Canned hunting is a black eye on the safari business. Problem is that it brings in lots of $$$ and that makes a lot of people turn a blind eye to it. One time when I was on the South Africa/Botswana border I had a PH tell me that on 2 days notice and $15,000 he could put me on a big lion. I told him I'd rather not get involved in anything like that. I assure you that was a canned hunt. Most dedicated lion safaris run at lest 21 days and less than half of them are successful.

Cheers

[houseofmicah]

He got up all cool like but you know he had a load in his pants. I would.

yeah, im surprised the camera couldn't pick up the brown river going down his legs. that was intense. hey flags, what do they do with a lion, give it to a local tribe to eat? is there any good reason to hunt a lion other than maybe it has a history of attacking humans or a lot of livestock?

[flags]

[quote hey flags, what do they do with a lion, give it to a local tribe to eat? is there any good reason to hunt a lion other than maybe it has a history of attacking humans or a lot of livestock?[/quote]

Lion, leopard and hyena are not normally consumed. So, the carcass is either dumped in the bush or used for bait for other things. Any meat can be used to bait crocs, leopard or hyena.

The big, well maned lion is considered to ultimate African trophy. It's also a member of what is known as the "Big 5". This means that most really serious hunters wanting to go to Africa want to get one. The problem is that the supply of huntable wild lions is quickly disappearing. Because lions like to eat cattle, a lot of them end up getting illegally poisoned by the native cattle herders. For every pride they kill off, there are simply less available for safari hunters.

Also, they try to avoid killing the pride male on safari. When a pride male gets killed, another male will take over the pride. One of the first things the new male will do is kill all the cubs. This brings the females back into cycle so he can breed them. So, if you kill the pride male, you're actually killing something like 10-12 lions and not just one.

For safari, they target the males that are past breeding age and that have been kicked out of the pride by a younger and stronger male. This means there is always a finite number of suitable cats for the safari operators to target. This increases the demand and also the price. It's just not possible for everyone that wants a big, well maned lion to get one.

And that is why the whole canned hunting thing got going. South Africa hosts more hunting safaris annually that all the other countries combined, but has virtually no wild lions outside the parks. So, what happened is that an entire cottage industry developed to provide captive bred lions to the safari industry. A lot of people were on safari and got an offer just like the one I got. Most didn't even know they had been taken for a ride. They got offered a deal on a lion and since they were already there, they jumped on it.

They got their trophy and the chance to tell how they hunted the king of beasts in deepest, darkest Africa, the PH made a pile of $$$ on short notice, the breeders got more capital to expand their operations and the anti-hunters got more ammunition to use against the hunters. Everyone involved wins except the cat, which never actually stood a chance.

An actual, honest to God lion safari is extremely expensive. I had a buddy book one a couple years ago with a PH named John Sharp. Like Johan Calitz, he's the real deal and is one of the highest rated PH's in Zimbabwe. The lion safari cost $1400 a day for a minimum of 18 days with a $4000 trophy fee payable to the government after the lion was killed. Add in round trip airfare of at least $2500, trophy prep/shipment of at least $1000 and taxidermy of at least $2500 for a skin or $7000 for a life size mount and it adds up. Do the math and you come up with a minimum of $35,200 for that lion hunt if they took the cat. And, that's just the lion. Anything else he took would have added to the price since everything has a goverment mandated trophy fee attached to it. Even a bait impala would cost at least $300. It's a big business and carries big costs.

The real kicker is that he didn't get his cat. After all, it's called hunting and it isn't called shooting. No matter how good the area is and how good the PH is, there is still a lot of brush for lions to hide in and not all dedicated lion safaris will be successful. That is, unless they are a canned hunt. So, when someone wanders up to somebody and lets them know they can provide a lion on short notice for less than half the price, people accept the offer. It's sad, but it simply is a fact that things like this are happening.

As to the second part of your question about the serious cattle killers or maneaters, a safari client will never hunt one of those problem cats. That's a job for a professional. When something of this nature happens, they usually get ahold of the PH that controls that area and tell him/her to sort it out. Since they only keep their hunting concessions if they stay on good terms with the government, they have to comply. Hunting a maneater is probably one of the most dangerous things in the world. And they are not going to let a rookie do it. Most times they are only going to get one shot at it and they want it done right. After all, people's lives or livelihoods are at stake. It isn't a game or a sport at that point, it's serious business.

I don't care how much hunting someone has done here in America, they are simply not up to the task. These African PH's are very, very good at what they do. Their lives and the lives of their staff and clients depend on it.

Cheers

[houseofmicah]

good info, thanks

[GoodOyster]

When we lived in South Africa, we were right next to Kruger Park in a little town called Phalaborwa. One of the local guys that worked for my dad as a plant superintendent was also a PH, and he was THE GUY they called whenever something got loose from Kruger or was causing problems. One time 3 buffalo got loose and were running through downtown, ramming cars and tearing stuff up. People were afraid to go out on the street because these buffs were chasing anything that moved. Rudy, the guy who worked for my dad, was called and came into town in his old Range Rover, and with three shots put the buffs down. The biggest was an older cow who was pregnant, and just days from giving birth. The unborn calf was considered a delicacy and was given to one of the local tribal chiefs. Rudy got to keep some of the meat that he wanted as pay for the job, and the rest went to local tribes people. In the 18 months we lived there, I know Rudy was called out to kill those buffalo, 2 giraffes caught up in a barbed wire fence, a leopard that was coming in to the edges of town at night and killing dogs, a bull elephant with an infected tusk (they said you could smell the gangrene from 100 meters), and a gang of Chacma baboons that were raiding garbage bins and killing pets. Those are just the stories I remember.